Today’s sermon (3/29/08 – Three More Weeks) was quite eventful and Weinland is definately keeping an eye on his critics. Towards the end of the sermon he did caution all of his critics that “I would not want to be in your shoes – come April 17.” Weinland implied that after he assumes the role of an end-time witness on April 17th that what he says will carry “…greater weight…and come to pass.”
Weinland did mention that the 2 witnesses start witnessing on April 17th, not 3 and one-half days earlier as everyone assumed. Weinland implied that both witnesses would be still continuing to witness to the world after they are killed 3 and one-half days before the return of Christ on September 29, 2011. After they die, Weinland stated that they would be still witnessing to the world because television cameras would be watching them for 3 and one-half days, until they are resurrected.
Filed under: Ron Weinland - The End-Time Spokesman Discussion Forum, Ronald Weinland Blast and Curses His "Critics" | Tagged: end times, false witness, Prophet, Ronald, Weinland, Witness
I believe that Weinland has been personally or has a group of people working for him who have been monitoring various web sites regarding public opinion or skeptism. This was evident in today’s sermon. Weinland publically denounced his critics and basically put a curse on them for discussing his credibility and debating on whether or not he is a true prophet of God. I believe Weinland has to have doubts on the validity of this predictions.
First of all Weinland claimed in various interviews and sermons that if nothing transpires by the end of April he would announce to the world and go on various interviews declaring that he was a false prophet. In today’s sermon, he states that nothing is going to occur on April 17th and the opening of the 1st Trumpet will start and grow with intensity for the next couple of months. If nothing happens by Pentecost or the end of July, then he will stop preaching and announce he is a false prophet.
Weinland has also claimed in past sermons and interviews that he would not be like prophets of the past and change their dates, yet he is doing this very thing!
Can one still witness once they are dead? Weinland’s is making the claim that one can still witness to the world once one is dead.
Ron Weinland speaks with a fork tongue.
If he wants to follow the Bible, which at times he sort of does, then he should not be shocked at all about people who don’t believe him. He’s said in interviews that he will pretty much kill people with sickness and plagues that get in his way. The 2 witnesses will have power to do that, according to Revelation.
However, what one must look at now is how Ron is going about handling the “critics” he’s talking about.
I would have to say based on the Bible, that the 2 witnesses aren’t going to really care about the “critics” in terms of shutting them up. The non-believers are the ones that their message will go out to and those that try to HARM them will be met with a death. It’s one thing to be a non-believer or a “critic.” There will be many “critics.” But there will also be those that try to kill the witnesses. That’s the ones that they will be able to deal with.
Ron is not looking at this Biblically at all. His sermons are full of his excitement at his coming ability to kill people that get in his way… that’s not what the Bible says the primary role of the the 2 will be.
If he was truly preacing God’s word, he wouldn’t be bashing those who don’t believe him and putting psuedo curses on them. This tells me that he’s angry that his cat is being let out of the bag and he can’t control it.
And Doug– correct me if I am wrong… I don’t know of any prophets in the Bible that set any dates. They gave mathematics, but actual dates were not set…. like the birth of Christ. Nothing is recorded about “when” Jesus would be born…. it was just prophesied that it would occur. Why? To me it’s clear…. it simplly doesn’t matter. Could Christ return in 2011? I don’t think so, because there are several other things that the Bible tells us MUST HAPPEN first. Could Christ rapture the chruch at any time? Yes, even if one doesn’t believe in the rapture. But Christ’s PHYSICAL return to the earth must be follow certain physical events. Nobody has any idea when those things will come to pass, including Ronald Weinland. And the earth at this point, if one reads the Bible… has no need for a “prophet.”
The two end-time witnesses will need absolutely no introduction according to the Bible. They will simply show up on the scene. According to the text, there will be NO NEED for them to have followers. And it doesn’t matter at all who these two are (the bible says they will both be men).
And Ron uses the classic spinster technique of taking some things literally (the 1000 years) and others symbolicly (the half our of silence in heaven and the 1260 days, etc.)…. Nobody knows when these things will start and what a “day” actually means, but there is a very strong argument, just by reading Scripture that one should take just about all of it literally. 1000 years is a 1000 years. A “half and hour” is a half an hour. There is NOTHING in the Bible that says that it means 30 days.
There are instances in scripture where passages of time are referred to as “ages.” That is a prime example of a word that could mean just about any period of time. There is NO REASON to try to spin those things. It doesn’t do any good. Who’s to say that an age doesn’t mean 1 million years? Who’s to say an age isn’t 7 years? 7,558 years?
My point? At this point Ron is “reacting.” He’s not being proactive at all… by announcing all of these elders is his way of trying to come off like he’s got all of these people on the front lines to fight off the critics.
And yes, I do believe he’s got people monitoring blogs, etc. I know that for a fact. Sources have told me that he personally is looking at things. That’s why he’s getting so upset. When Ron talked about the MySpace account that he had taken down, he tried to speak like he has no technical knowledge, but he didn’t do a good job of trying to dumb himself down. He knows exactly what’s going on. I think the waves that are being made by his “critics” are just what he set out for.
He called the critics “crackpots” and that they should get a life for “feeding” off all of this… Just by the way he’s been speaking, HE is the one that’s FEEDING on the attention he’s getting. But at this point, I really think he feels like he’s been exposed. And he should feel like that.
I don’t wish any harm upon Ronald Weinland. I don’t know that man. I don’t know why he’s cooked this up, but I can understand, due to from where he comes. WCG splinter leaders, from my experience, are so afraid of letting go of the Herbert W. Armstrong doctrine, that they keep trying to revive a dead horse….. but they are all getting very rich doing it.
I hop Ron is sincere about admitting that he’s false when the time comes, because it IS going to come. But from what I have read, he’s going to be LONG gone before any of that will happen.
He’s lining up the pawns and he’s setting someone up to take the fall for him. He says he’s operating on God’s timeline. For those of us that have read both books (twice), it’s easy to see that God’s timeline has NOTHING to do with this.
Jimmy,
“He called the critics “crackpots” and that they should get a life for “feeding” off all of this… Just by the way he’s been speaking, HE is the one that’s FEEDING on the attention he’s getting. But at this point, I really think he feels like he’s been exposed. And he should feel like that.’
I believe that Weinland said it quite plainly on Saturday in his sermon, when an individual told him that he appears to be “backpedaling.” I would say he is trying to dodge bullets in order to hold this “Tea Party” of his together.
I believe his membership is getting a little concerned and rightfully, so. How does one explain to your followers that “God, must not be ready to set up his government on the earth, yet.” I believe that Armstrong in 1975, after his predictions of the return of Christ failed and didn’t happen, he hushed the membership and told them, it was basically the “memberships” fault for not being ready for Christ to return. Also, after 1975, there was no discussion of Armstrong’s predictions, and many members who became associated with his organization after this point in time, never new that any of these predictions or his book 1975 in Prophecy even existed or occurred. There was no internet. If Armstrong would be around today, he would be definately more exposed, then what he was in the 70’s. However, Armstrong was more shrewd, personable and put the right people in the right positions in order for him to be successful. Actually, I believe if Armstrong would have been living today, because of his intellect, management style, the use of the internet, marketing strategies, he would still have a significant following, and that following would still be larger than Weinland’s. Ron Weinland does everything himself, and does not have the people skills, the appropriate marketing experience, or the appropriate managment skills and strategies to make this whole “Tea Party” of his fly. Then, again it would never fly, if he is not a true prophet of God, because in the end, what he says would not come to pass. I wonder how Weinland is going to play his last hand in this card game?
Intellect? Armstrong never got beyond the eighth grade. If he was alive today (he would be well over a hundred so that right there would suggest he was biblical but let’s not quibble the spiritual stuff), the church would have been done in, thanks to CRI and Hank Hanegraaf, if it had kept on going in the same vein, and had not superficially changed its story so it looked more protestant to the people that counted.
As for Weinland “playing his last hand” don’t say that. I certainly don’t want anything bad to happen to the Weinlands while they are in Israel, any more than I want anything bad to happen to the members of their church. After all, Weinland is “one of us” (by us I mean me I don’t know if you’re still with a CoG or not WT)—-an ex-Worldwide member.
The only difference between myself and Weinland is that Weinland still believes. Much to his detriment, but also to the detriment of those in his church.
WW,
You question that HWA was intelligent. I believe that he was intelligent, motivated, and chismatic. All of these qualities played a role in his success (Armstrong believed this was successful). The unfortunate part was that it was at the expense of all of those people who could not afford to support such a cause. This alone is against my values and beliefs. His motives were different than a scholar, or what many of us would associate with “intellectualism”. Armstrong was primarily interested in power, money, and prestege and he went about achieving that success like many others of his time. HWA was always interested in what others thought of him and wanted to make himself well known, and I believe he accomplished some of this by his fancy jet, money and visiting all of those “Heads of State” on foreign soil. All I was stating in my above response what that HWA was a good at public relations and marketed his “dogma” in such a manner that many people could relate with his “marketed” beliefs. When HWA was in his early 20’s, he did claim that he did not believe in God. However, after 2 failed business and a very low point in his live, he went in this new direction of the ministry.
I too, do not want to see Weinland hurt himself or others. I wish him no harm. I personally think that he will not go in this direction. As far as how Weinland is going “to play his last hand,” I was not even thinking about him hurting others, but merely how he would end this whole crusade of his, if he does not get his desired results of being a true prophet and witness. Is he really going to stop preaching? Is he going to be true to his word as he has stated in 3/29/08 sermon? Will he give the leadership of his church over to his evangelist’s and stop preaching, but continue on as in administrator of his church (in charge of the finances), if he still has a following. Or, will he just dissolve the organization and slip into retirement. There are countless other possibilities of what he may do, and all I was referencing was that it is going to be interesting in viewing how these last few months are going to unfold. Again, I do not wish harm to Weinland or any of his group, but for all of them to come to an understanding that we “humans” do not have all of the answers to “life’s” questions.